Immigration: Spelling Things Out

God bless the new American, 43-year-old Master Gunnery Sgt. Guadalupe Denogean (USMC) who immigrated to the United States from Mexico with his parents when he was but six. In today’s speech on illegal immigration solutions, President Bush correctly held him up as an example of the type of immigrant who loves his adopted country so much that he was willing to risk life and limb to defend it, as he has for the past twenty-six years. However, a certain question needs to be asked.

Was Gunny Denogean an illegal immigrant? In every write-up on the gentleman’s bravery and injuries from serving in Iraq, no mention is made of the status of his family when they made the journey from the Old Country to the New. I’m inclined to doubt that the military is accepting immigrants who arrived illegally, however.

Assuming that the good Marine’s family came here legally, it is dishonest for the president to hold him up as an example of the subject at hand. Few persons who want concrete and meaningful solutions to the illegal immigration problem begrudge the actions of legal immigrants—those who wait their turn for citizenship or step to the front of the line by serving in the manner that the gunny has. (And since he waited roughly thirty-two years for his citizenship, one could hardly say that the gunny stepped out of line. In my opinion, the end of his first enlistment should have put him in front of the line to take his test.)

When the president mentioned this man, I turned the broadcast off in anger. How dare he suggest that people who sneaked (his word) into this country are the same as those who followed the rules? And how dare he (and others) imply that those of us who want to stem the tide of illegal immigration of all ethnicities and nationalities are against embracing presumably legal immigrants and good persons like Gunny Denogean?

It’s as if certain segments of the population think that their countrymen who oppose illegal immigration are too stupid to know the difference.

It’s worse than that. Some charming elitists think that the immigration of illegals is just-deserts for low-skilled Americans; that Americans who don’t get their education deserve to be walking the streets unemployed; that they deserve to be displaced by those who broke the law to come here and are forced willing to accept lower-than minimum wage. (I hope that such people remember their words the next time they’re complaining about the welfare state or some beggar asks them for a quarter or the next time they’re mugged.) One wonders what such people think should be done with all of these low-skilled Americans who can’t get jobs due to the illegal immigration factor. Perhaps they should all be forced to trade citizenship with the illegals. But then, the new Americans would rightly demand minimum wage and the problem would start itself all over again. (This from an economics blog, no less.)

Back to Gunny Denogean: if he was brought here illegally, he should have never been allowed to join the military. This in no way, lessens his service and if he and others, possibly being illegal immigrants, were allowed in—whether they have served one or thirty years—they should be allowed to stay in and given American citizenship, if desired, or legal status. However, if it is true that illegal immigrants are being allowed to join the military, it’s the government’s problem and not theirs and it needs to stop right now.

The way advocates of illegal immigration attempt to twist the conversation into being about all immigration speaks to an ugly facet of political discussion. One takes something that’s not being said and argues against that something. We all know what that method of argument is called. An even uglier facet of this type of argument attempts to attribute the worst of human failings to illegal immigration opponents: that of racism.

I could go on about my (partially, obviously) Mexican-descended cousins at this point, but I’d rather talk about my biological father. He certainly isn’t the best father in the world and he has some whack (IMO) political ideas, but I have some respect for him for one particular reason (aside from the fact that I am biblically-commanded to honor him).

From Kenya, he immigrated to the US to go to college (back when immigrants on student-visas actually attended school for honorably reasons) and met my mother there. After thier marriage, my birth and their divorce, he graduated and went back home to help better the country of his birth. (One might say that he wasn’t that successful, but that’s beside the point.)

Why can’t Mexicans, with so close an example at hand, do the same? A better question: why aren’t they willing to try?

Some fringe parts of the illegal immigration advocacy want the territories (now American states) appropriated as a result of the nineteenth-century Mexican-American War returned to Mexican possession. So let me get this straight: these people want to turn the place to which they fled seeking to receive jobs, education and real upward-mobility for their American-born children into the place from which they were oppressed so forcefully that they had to flee? Yeah, that makes sense. I suppose that this is easier than staying home and attempting to make meaningful change in one’s own country. (One might want to ask veterans of the Civil Rights Movement how “easy” such is, but it was done.)

I guess I’m simply baffled by the “logic” put forth by those who don’t want to do anything meaningful about illegal immigration, including that of President Bush.

Excuse me while I go take an aspirin.

(Thanks to Red State)

Comments

[Xixi]

This is all a problem with Mexico. It has become our problem over years. The Mexican government needs to be made accountable for this. George Bush is just Vicente Fox's poodle.

[ErikZ]

I think you're reading too much into this. No matter what Bush's plan is, it has to go through the political grinder before becoming reality.

Who knows what it will look like at that point.

What I saw last night was "This is now an issue we will be working on instead of sweeping under the rug."

It may not be the best result, but it's far better than what we've been getting.

[DarkStar]

1. Good post, but of course it's a good post because I agree. :)

2. I'm not so sure that illegal citizens aren't joining the service.

[Gary Morley]

With respect and admiration, I salute Master Gunnery Sergeant Denogean. He's part of the solution, not part of the problem.

[Mike]

Good points. On a minor note, its "Master Guns Denogean" not "Gunny Denogean." A Gunny is a Gunnery Sergeant.

[baldilocks]

Leave to a service that's a part of Navy to complicate naming things.

:::ducks::::

[trainer]

My personal opinion...?

The Republicans lost the mid-terms and the 2008 election last night.

Even as a life-long conservative, I don't feel bad about that. If they refuse to listen to what 70+ percent of the country wants...they deserve what they get.

[Tully]

The polls suggest that 70% heard what they wanted to hear last night, which is about what they wanted all along. Border enforcement, employer punishments, and assimilation for those already present.

Now, did he really mean all three?

[Justin]

Bush is in a pretty tight spot--his base wants one thing, but I think he fundamentally believes something else.

But, I'm still not sure what the big problem with illegal immigration is. Why can't we just give lots of guest worker cards to people that want to work here, and crack down on employers who hire those without guest worker cards. Have the illegals that are here already pay a fine and make them jump through some hoops to get a guest worker card. Yeah, they came here illegally, but hopping the border to feed your family is a forgiveable offense in my book.

[John Salmon]

Yes, coming here illegally is wrong. So is running a red light.

I'm not being frivolous. If someone risks his life to come here to feed his family in poverty in Mexico, that is hardly a gravely wrong act. We tell these people, "You shouldn'r be here", then somone hands them a job. Nice clear message.

Getting on a moral high horse about illegal immigrants is judgmental, and I'd argue, un-Christian. I have yet to meet an American who thinks a tax amnesty (which states and municiplaities sometimes offer) is wrong-yet the people benefiting from those amenesties broke the law as well, and probably for weaker reasons than the people coming here to get out of poverty.

By the way, sealing the border is an impossibility. I'm amazed, as a conservative, to hear my brethren say that, by golly, if we just spent enough money and hired enough agents, we could keep 'em all out. Crap. That's the kind of argument liberals use-if we just spent more money, we could solve social problem X. You can't legislate aginst mass choice, whtehr it's drugs, booze, or people who crosss our border who'd rather not starve to death.

[Wayne]

It goes way further than merely returning these territories to Mexico, Juliette.

The goal of the MEChA/LA RAZA/Azteca movement is a bronze continent. "For the race everything, for the rest nothing" is the motto of La Raza. "Death to Gringos" is their battle cry.

I have read many dissertations where they talk of the hope of uniting with the remaining Native American tribes for a glorious slaughter of the white filth infesting their land.

They have written missives of salute and support for Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, Hugo Chavez, Fidel Castro, and Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda.

This is why I call them Mexiqaeda on my blog and they are a bigger threat to us than binny Laden ever was, because they will work with him and others to destroy us.

And these are just the more nutcase people of the equation.

My best freind is married to a Columbian woman and as there aren't that many Columbians in Milwaukee, most of her freinds here are illegals from Mexico.

My freind has been a part of literally dozens of conversations where the point of the subject is always the same.

They hate it here.

They hate us Gringos.

They hate the Protestant culture dominating the public and our disrespect to the Church and the Pope and the Virgin.

They hate the flag that we are so proud of and our whole country is an affront to them.

They really love Mexico and their culture.

All they want is to come here to make a bunch of money for themselves and their families so they can go back to Mexico and have a good life there.

They would welcome taking back what we "stole" from them and if they could make it so there wasn't a single white person left on earth - so much the better.

When they hear Chavez and bin Laden and others talk about destroying America or hear some idiot like Farrakhan talk about wiping out "white-skinned devils" they nod their heads in agreement and some even cross themselves with a prayer and a smile to the Virgin.

They aren't real thrilled with most black people either because we brought you here ergo you should get off their land as well.

Unlike everyone else who comes here they have no intention of assimilatiing as they are hoping to figure out a way to make us go away.

As one woman told my buddy, you use a fool to get his money and what you want, but you don't sleep with him (assimilation).

[Justin]

Wayne, what, is that like .000001% of the illegal immigrants? Mexicans have assimilated just fine into the United States, and to brand even a significant minority of them with the reconquista brush doesn't help the debate any. There are certainly issues with illegal immigration, but that isn't one of them.

[fuzz]

Hopping the border to feed your family may be a forgiveable offense, but so is stealing to feed your family, right? Unless you're in Saudi Arabia or some such place where they cut off people's hands for stealing. How about stealing to get healthcare for you and your family? How about stealing to get education for your family? Is anyone obligated to be stolen from for someone else's needs?
It's nice and all to be compassionate but why should Americans bear the burden for Mexico's failure? Illegal immigrants use emergency rooms here as their free healthcare (free for them but American taxpayers are stuck with the bills and hospital closings), get free education (while American taxpayers put up the money for not only the books and teachers but also the Spanish translations, etc., needed), and demand that the American government do what they say while they wave Mexican flags. If anyone wants to foot the bills, that's fine, but it's *WRONG* to be "generous" with other people's money. And if anyone thinks that those are just petty cash, well, I recently went to the ER, it's 900+ dollars and I didn't even get any special tests done; and if education is cheap, private schools shouldn't cost that much.

[Justin]

Fuzz, this has nothing to do with being generous with other people's money. Hopping the border isn't like stealing because by most indications illegal immigrants are not a drain on the American economy, and may actually help it. Plus, many illegals do pay taxes (all pay sales tax, and many use false ids for work, so they pay state and federal taxes).

Anyway, even if what you are saying is true, let's give guest worker cards so these people can pay taxes.

[fuzz]

Justin,

It has everything to do with being generous with other people's money. When these illegals go to hospitals and don't pay, then they're using other people's money. Do you know of someone who actually works in a hospital where illegals go? Do you know how they act there?

You indicated that by most indications that illegals aren't a drain on the economy. Do you have data to back that up? I'm not doubting you, but I would like to know if these studies take into account the money to educate the illegal's children, the extra money used to translate everything into Spanish, the incarceration costs of illegal criminals (and I mean more than just crossing borders in this case), the hospital bills, the extra time drain placed on everyone because of the traffic congestion (I didn't realize how much that was a problem until I got stuck in downtown traffic on a Saturday because of their infamous rally, and until that so-called day without immigrants -- as if all were illegal -- freed up traffic on the 605 and 105), and the severe problems associated with identity thefts and stolen SSNs.

And finally, what's the good of a guest worker program if we can't enforce the laws on who comes into the country? Besides, do these illegals really want guest worker programs, or just to get all the benefits of citizenship without going through the legal process like the *legal* immigrants? I don't know about you, but it is really sickening to read about those people declaring that nothing is going to stop them from crossing the border and demanding their "rights" even though they don't bother obeying the laws of this country.

[moose and squirrel]

Right on Miss baldilocks > I forward stuff like this to people who accuse republicans of haveing blind faith and being yes men
I think we are , for the most part, Way more progressive than the democrats are lately they seem to have there heads stuck in the sand Or in some cases in Nether regions.

[skinner]

Justin WAYNES RIGHT Its more
like 90% of the illeagals that have this agenda You need to clear the sand out of youre ears

[skinner]

Justin WAYNES RIGHT Its more
like 90% of the illeagals that have this agenda You need to clear the sand out of youre ears

[skinner]

Wayne Is telling the truth this la raza group is comprable to the KKK skinheads And Jerry Farwell They hope to join with native americans to reclaim they"re ancesral land Isnt it any wonder the "natives are'nt reaching ot they're arms " Fool me Once shame one me Etc. This world and humanity refuses to GIVE UP ON RACISM Its our destiny I guess Im not going there. " This Train dont carry No IDIOTS " " This train"!!!

[GOP4Me]

We need to deport these crooks back to Mexico. In fact, we should deport the ones who didn't come from Mexico to Mexico, too, to teach those Mexicans what it's like having to deal with millions of illegals trying to steal all the good jobs away from the citizens.

Failing that, regime change in Mexico may be in order.

[skinner]

Regime change In Mexico will never happen as long as we are there release valv and the gestapo gov. are the ones that are ARMED why do you think they banned firearms long ago does the name pancho villa ring a bell?
Know liberal commie facisists like Hillary Clinton .Diane Feinstein, sen. Bobble head Kennedy, justin, and other high profile Idiots want to disarm
americans so they can pursue thre politicall correct agenda Guess WHAT GIVE IT UP
We arnt poor peasents even the poorist of us have old ,hand me down,weapon tecnololgy that can kill TYRANTS just as dead as the latest semiautomatic Give It Up Start enfforcing the laws and Honoring the bill of rights Or get written off You Liberals just dont get the wake up calls do you Maybe if you pulled you Heads out.,,. You would smell FREEDOM Its really not that bad

For the first time

[skinner]

Regime change In Mexico will never happen as long as we are theyre release valve and theyre gestapo gov. are the ones that are ARMED why do you think they banned firearms long ago does the name pancho villa ring a bell?
Now liberal commie facists like Hillary Clinton .Diane Feinstein, sen. Bobble head Kennedy, justin, and other high profile Idiots want to disarm
americans so they can pursue there politically correct agenda Guess WHAT GIVE IT UP
We arent poor peasents even the poorist of us have old ,hand me down,weapon technology that can kill TYRANTS ,just as dead, as if theye'd been KILT WIT A BRAND NEW SEARS GUN [ twice even] , most people I know have better stuff though No they arent extremest They just grew up in aplace where hunting was a necessety for theyre parents and or grandparents and a sport for them ,A necessity , If you live in L.A. imagine haveing Hillary tell you to walk to work give up youre car they need to Give It Up Start enforcing the laws and Honoring the bill of rights Or get written off You Liberals just dont get the wake up calls do you Maybe if you pulled youre Heads out.,,. You would smell FREEDOM , for the first time ,Its really not that bad. But Liberals Have never been about fresh air have they They cloud realitty whever they go.

[Teri Lester]

It seems to me that it is a matter of simple math: when an employer hires an illegal alien, two people are added to the welfare rolls: the American citizen or legal resident he did not hire, who will be on either public assistance or unemployment, and the person he just hired, who will be taking health care from the public system.

Surely you don't think that the the employer won't pay a fair wage to a legal worker is going to give health care to his illegal worker.

[Lisa W.]

GOP4Me said:
"In fact, we should deport the ones who didn't come from Mexico to Mexico, too, to teach those Mexicans what it's like having to deal with millions of illegals trying to steal all the good jobs away from the citizens. "
I had a good laugh at this one, but afterwards I thought "that might be one of the best solutions I've heard yet"...

[Warthog]

How many illegal immigrants got registered to vote and what is to stop them from voting? Welcome to the third world U.S.A.!

[skinner]

The reality of this is { and I
Know I'll catch HELL for this }
The biggest problem Is the
CATHOLIC CHURCH
They killed the indians that didnt convert, They stole theyre treasures , They stole their culture , They oppresed them and tranquilized them and Kept them in the dark Then they deprived them of all birth controll { Yes all native people had it and practiced it} , and then they , basically, enslaved them No wonder theyre up here ???? Bush has pusseyed around with El Presedente But its bull shit I think we should build the wall
as cheap as possible Then issue returning lleagals with A K 47s At the border Then back them up with Air Power But This country would be too easy to defeat and a bigger drain then an asset Once again thank the conquistadores AKA.......CATHOLIC CHURCH!!!!

[Justin]

What good jobs are Mexicans stealing from American citizens?

[skinner]

They come into the clinic where my girlfreind works all the time to take piss tests An Oregon requirement to get A commercial licence to drive trucks
This aint picking garlic and they drive the wages like crazy
This Oregon lets them do without proof of citizenship the same way there wifes and 12 kids get on the Oregon Health plan
FREE HEALTHCARE FOR ILLEAGALS
Im a taxpayer and a citisen and I cant afford INS. because Im self employed I havent been in for a physical in 20 years and they bring there kids in for free everytime the cough Its not just that theyre taking good jobs citesens want Its that theryre doing it illeagally while not paying taxes and they get free Health care The driving down the pay scale because they can afford it with theyre free healthcare and and theyre low income housing and there driving up our taxes But most of all IDIOT theyre Breaking the law
WAKE THE HELL UP !!!!!

[ben]

"They hate it here.

They hate us Gringos.

They hate the Protestant culture dominating the public and our disrespect to the Church and the Pope and the Virgin.

They hate the flag that we are so proud of and our whole country is an affront to them.

They really love Mexico and their culture."

This seems to be a fairly standard reaction from most expats in any country. London is absolutely stuffed with all manner of foreigners, and their one uniting factor seems to be that they like to have a good whinge about the culture they are living in, whether temporary or permanent. It's not unusual, or serious

[RepJ]

Actually, I think illegals ARE signing up for the military. I personally know of atleast one that did (80% sure she was an illegal), and I've heard of illegals going into the military to serve in Iraq and get citizenship when they get home. Sorry, but I can't verify any of that.

[Justin]

Actually, I think illegals ARE signing up for the military. I personally know of atleast one that did (80% sure she was an illegal), and I've heard of illegals going into the military to serve in Iraq and get citizenship when they get home.

Great--if someone is willing to risk his/her life to sneak accross the border (assuming the illegal is Mexican) for a $4/hr job, and then risk his/her life to fight for the US in Iraq, that is exactly the type of person who should be made a citizen. I'm serious, aren't those the type of people we want here?

[fuzz]

Willingness to die for one's own family or personal benefits does not necessarily imply a willingness to die for the country one is living in, does it? In a crunch, would a person motivated to get a country's benefits try to protect his own skin or defend his comrades and the country? It's certainly possible that some illegals actually care about this country, whether in military defenses or financial responsibilities, but I guess I'm just skeptical given the financial burden California is under because of the illegals abusing the system.

[baldilocks]

I don't question anyone's honorable service, fuzz.

[skinner]

Im thinking of breaking into Mexico illeagally so I can join
Presidente Foxes war against drugs I hear the pays real good plus fringe benefits

[Celtic Dragon]

Justin wrote: "What good jobs are Mexicans stealing from American citizens?"
How about mine genius. I used to work for my stepfather, who ran an electrical contracting company in South Texas. He paid what were the standard, statewide rates for both Journeymen and electricians assistants, which put him above what other companies were paying their illegal immigrant workers.

As more and more companies fell into the same policy, that of getting rid of their "overpaid" American workers, many of whom were of Mexican heritage, for illegals from Mexico who would work for less than minimum wage, he eventually went out of business rather than do the same thing.

For those who are in the middle class or above in this country, you don't really think of this as a major problem since the only way it really impacts you is in the amount of taxes you pay, or when you have to negotiate your way through an emergency room visit. For those of us in the working classes, it is a nightmare, with already low wages staying stagnant, even though labor shortages should lead to increases in our wages. It means that in schools in the US, where American holidays should predominate, Cinco de Mayo and Diez y Seis de Septiembre are prominantly highlighted, but Presidents Day and Memorial Day are barely mentioned. If you want to help people, start by helping those in your own country who could use the help.