Liberty For All!

Better Red than dead. Wait, that doesn’t work for this situation, even though the first can often lead to the second more speedily than is usual. Better dead than Red. Nope, not that one either.

Better Red and dead. That just about sums it up for the New York Civil Liberties Union.

The New York Civil Liberties Union today filed suit against the city to keep police from searching the bags of passengers entering the subway, organization lawyers said.

The suit, which filed in U.S. District Court in Manhattan, will claimed that the two-week old policy violates constitutional guarantees of equal protection and prohibitions against unlawful searches and seizures, while doing almost nothing to shield the city from terrorism.

Is the NYPD requiring that passengers make a choice between submitting their baggage for inspection or paying a fine/going to jail? And while the effectiveness against terrorism of the random search is arguable, why should the city be sued because the NYCLU believes that the tactic is ineffective?

It argues that the measure also allows the possibility for racial profiling, even though officers are ordered to randomly screen passengers.

I’m at a loss for this one. So, by the NYCLU’s logic, if the NYPD search criteria--searching every fifth passenger with a tote—allegedly allows for the possibility of racial profiling then, it’s a given that
• every fifth passenger is Arab or black (as ridiculous as that sounds),
• every Arab or black is more likely to carry a tote than others are, and
• each one of those carry-ons that the Arabs/blacks are carrying is more likely to contain an explosive device.

Tell me again, which one of these organizations is doing almost nothing to protect NYC from terrorism and is racially profiling?

(Thanks to LaShawn)

Comments

[Tony Miller]

For crying out loud, are they F-ing CRAZY!!!! They want to implement something that might help protect us, and they have figured out a way to make it completely INEFFECTIVE!!!! So let's check the handbag of a 98 year old white lady in a wheelchair, while we let the 25 year old swarthy male with the suitcase in one hand and a Koran under the other arm through without even a look. HAVE WE LOST OUR MIND!!!!

[Michael]

To a certian extent, yes

[wayne]

Since 911, I have flown on 12 flights around the country. Before 9 of those flights my wife and I were taken aside for extra screening and my bags were searched by hand.

After every time I thanked the screeners for checking me as I hoped it was a sign I was NOT going to have to fight some *&$#@% Arab to keep the plane from hitting a building or have me and my spouses' body parts spread across a field somewhere.

The Al Qaeda, Communists, and La Raza Union wants terrorism. They see these acts as a tool in destroying this country and creating the Socialist world they all dream of.

Of all things in the world, the ACLU ARE THE REAL ENEMY. Every other group including Al Qaeda are just their proxies.

[Justin]

I am adamantly against these searches.

I'm not sure about the legality of the searches, but they have about a 0% chance of stopping a terrorist attack on the subways--any bomb-weilding terrorist could (i) see the police and walk 8 blocks to the next stop or (ii) blow themselves up while being searched.

What angers me is that it is a waste of resources. The NYC transit system, and the city in general, is strapped for cash. Why not more bomb sniffing dogs? Why not train New Yorkers what to do in the event of an attack. What about more guards making sure people don't try to plant bombs in the tunnels? What about more station attendants who are trained to spot suspicious behavior? There are many NYC subway stops with no MTA employees. These are much better ways to spend the money. I ride the 6 train into Grand Central every day, and these searches do not make me feel any safer.

As for the civil liberties violations--I'm willing to admit we need to make trade-offs between safety and civil liberties. Airport screenings are effective because they screen everyone, and you can't just walk to the next terminal and not be searched.

The subways in NYC are basically like a public space (even though not technically). I think it is inappropriate and a violation of our civil liberties to be randomly searched by police. If I thought these searched in any way made us safer, maybe I would feel differently. But all these searches do is make the general public more comfortable with being searched by police, and it's not a big streach to think of the police trying to randomnly search people on the city streets.

And please, if anyone responds, can we not use the argument that people that do not agree with you are somehow terrorists or helping terrorists (AKA, "the Bill O'Reilly Tactic"). Thanks.

[Grim]

I seem to be having a trackback issue with your blog, so forgive me for linking you without TB.

As I noted over at Grim's Hall, I have been wondering a lot about the Constitutionality of this. I haven't yet found anyone who could defend the position that it was Constitutional (as opposed to necessary -- I completely accept that it might be necessary, regardless of whether it is Constitutional or not).

Feddie at Southern Appeal has promised to post something asking for some legal insight into the question. It will be interesting to see how it turns out.

[LB]

Isn't it strange that people are searched when entering any federal or otherwise public building, but suddenly it's illegal to search them on public transportation, the VERY TARGET of Islamofascists? Idiotic and illogical PC ideas are killing off brain cells at an alarming rate, it seems. :(

[Bill O..]

Please email Rush Limbaugh right now and demand that he stop accepting help from the ACLU on his defense against drug charges!

[LB]

If they hadn't come to the defense of such a high-profile figure whose privacy rights were being so obviously violated, they would have looked worse than the hypocritical fools they are. They virtually had no choice to speak out in Rush's defense. Given their track record, it proves little and changes nothing about who they are.

[dick]

Justin,

If you compare your comment to that of LB, you will see why your comment does not make any sense. You may not think that the inspections will not help. However, should they stop ONE bombing on the subway, the searching would have paid off big time whether you believe it or not. I do not think you necessarily support terrorists. You surely are doing nothing not to support them.

[Justin]

Dick said:
"If you compare your comment to that of LB, you will see why your comment does not make any sense. You may not think that the inspections will not help. However, should they stop ONE bombing on the subway, the searching would have paid off big time whether you believe it or not. I do not think you necessarily support terrorists. You surely are doing nothing not to support them."

Dick, that's a loaded argument. You can say that about any security measure, no matter how ridiculous (e.g., if we searched every car coming into Manhattan and it stopped one terrorist, it would be worth it, or if we don't let anyone carry bags on the subway and stop one bombing, it would be worth it). The point is with every security or safety measure there are costs, and we have to decide whether those costs are worth the measure. The odds of stopping even one terrorist with these searches are infinitely small. Is a terrorist going to just open his or her bag and say "gee you caught me"? More likely, the terrorist will see police searching people and walk to another entrance. Or they will just blow themselves up at the checkpoint, killing the police and everyone else in the vicinity. If a person is determined enough to strap a bomb to themselves, I'm pretty sure that they are determined enough to walk to another subway entrance as well. Why are we so willing to give up our civil liberties for something that won't even stop a terrorist?

[Bill O..]

Justin I have to disagree with you on this one. In fact I wish law enforcment would do more. Searching one bag in five is a trivial cosmetic remedy that wont really stop anyone half way as sneaky as a teenager sneaking liquor. It's a placebo for the public so politicians can avoid future liability. They need to implement a wider array of checks. What would be interesting to me is if they started to put another level of restrictions on gun purchases as part of getting serious about preventing terrorism. It would be sad yet ammusing to see how the right wing would justify messing around with all the other constitutional rights in the name of fighting terrorism except for gun rights. I remember when the Oklahoma bombing happened some politicians talked about putting microscopic markers into fertilizer so that bombs that used fertilizer as an ingredient would be more easily traced. The gun lobby used some lame slippery slope arguemnt to put the nix on that then.

[Bill O..]

LB: Except for the high priced lawyers Rush Limbaugh is being treated just like any other skanky junky criminal suspect. If his rights are being violated then I say welcome to the same criminal justice system that all the other junky criminals he railed about have to deal with.

[completeley out of context , FELLA]

At this late hour...... Let us
Pay Pennance REPE'TAN Porfavor
After me... Oh Larry , brother of Rod ... Press'ed are thy ,fruit of the looms , and....
bless'ed is Me , that somebody called the Police's .... Repeat over and over to remove any visuals

[skinner]

I f any of you pinhead commies think youre gonna take OUR 2Nd ammendment rights away easily
THEN think again YOU HAVE A TARGET ON YOURE HEAD AS WE SPEAK

I Suggest you take that good looking guys advice { OUT OF CONTEXT FELLA } ELSE wise youre pennance shall be paid on the wrong end of a 12GA. Kneel down and shut up

[Bill O..]

ROTFL LOL!!!! Thanks for proving my point skinner!

[teal marie]

Justin: Adamant enough to walk?
Bill O: F O
Skinner: A very merry unbirthday to you!

[Justin]

Teal Marie said:

"Justin: Adamant enough to walk?"

Adamant enough to politely refuse and walk to another subway entrance.

[teal marie]

I see, you save your bloviating for here, where it's safe.
Why don't you put some wheels on your soapbox and skate to Daycare?

[The Raven]

Unlike the chickenhawks and valiant members of the 101st Fighting Keyboarders, I am personally willing to engage the War on Terror and defend my Constitutional rights. I am willing to die to protect my Fourth Amendment right to freedom from unreasonable search and seizure. That means I completely oppose NYC's random bag checks, because I perceive them as being unnecessarily intrusive.

Why? Because we haven't had any suicide bombers attacking our subways. We have the DC metro, the Bay Area's BART system, the NY subways, the Disneyland monorail, lots of public transport. So, it is logical to ask, why should we begin violating the privacy of riders in New York City when it was the London Tube that was bombed? And what will prevent any terrorist, domestic or foreign, from attacking the undefended transit system of his or her choice? Buses, trains, subways, trams, lots of targets. Only a simple and ignorant child would fail to grasp that what we're seeing in New York is a stupid and ineffective "feel-good" measure that proclaims, "See? We're doing something! We're being proactive!"

But I'm willing - at this point - to take the risk. Defending my freedom is more than just leaving it to the military. I'm ready to join the fight and tell the terrorists that they can't so easily destroy my freedoms with nothing more than a threat. Screw them. In London, for instance, they killed what? 52? How many people ride the NY subway every day? And we've had no attacks since 9/11. At the moment, random bag searches are not required for safety purposes.

Sure, if we began to experience a string of bombings, a wave of attacks on our transport systems, then detectors, searches and whatnot might be a good idea. But not now. Better far to show how brave we are, better far to display courage, better far to stand tall and tell the Islamofascists that we, as Americans, won't let our liberties and freedoms be stripped from us so easily in a craven and simpering, purile and cowardly quest for a modicum of chimerical "safety." Screw that. And screw all the crawling and vapid citizens of this country who would so cheaply toss aside the precious and important liberties that were purchased for us by the blood of American patriots.

Don't you get it? A lot of brave Americans died in order that we can go about our business without having armed goons grabbing us in public and demanding to see the contents of our bags, demanding that we produce indentity cards and explain the reason for our movements. We are free only as long as we dare hold onto this democracy and dammit, I'm willing to take some risks, eager to demonstrate that I won't be cowed so easily. Maybe more of you might stand up and be counted alongside me.

[baldilocks]

Raven: Unlike the chickenhawks and valiant members of the 101st Fighting Keyboarders

Who might that be? Because I can provide my DD Form 214 and my retirement orders upon polite request (with my SSN blocked out of course). Can you?

[Bill O..]

Raven, I have spent a substantial amount of time in London and before the tube bombing it was so obvious to me that one of the places the terrorist were going to attack were the tube stations. I have actually refused to meet people at train/tube station exits there where people commonly meet in the UK. With the exception of King Cross I am a bit surprised which stations the terrorists chose. I understand your argument that living in a police state isn't freedom never the less living in fear is not living free either. I think where the right is completely hypocritical is they don’t mind having all our rights taken away as long as they get to keep their guns. Which is completely ironic when you consider the whole point of having gun rights is to protect all the other right to begin with. E.g. see skinners posts above. By the same token the anti-gun people on the left also need to get their rap consistent. If you are against peoples constitutional rights’ being taken away then that includes gun rights also. I don’t know if you even fall into either of the simplistic school of thought but I do think this should at least be discussed.

[baldilocks]

If you don't want your bag searched, you can refuse to allow it to be searched without penalty. No one is talking about throwing those who will not submit to search of their property into jail! In your zeal to sling epithets born of ignorance, Raven, and stand up to be counted as a brave defender of all we hold dear, you seem to have missed out on that fact.

[skinner]

Teal Marie what is this Im being ganged up on " unhappy birthday or happy unbirthday?"
My girlfreind of 14 yrs forgot my birthday 2 weeks ago
Im 53 so dont really give a shit
the fact is she had purchased tickets to see allison Kraus earlier and were going next week
"Oh brother where the hell are you"? I had to memorise something in the 3rd grade and recite it to the class there were no guidelines.... guess what my dad picked out for me Heres a
hint A pleasent walk a pleasent talk along the brimy..... If seven maids with seven mops swept it .... and this was scarecly odd because the'd eaten everyone.....
I don like being emploed by this Bill O blowhard I think Rush Limbaughs a major windbag too but I agree with 95% of what he says SO WHAT The constitution is not outdated and The 2nd ammendment, staying intact, is the only thing that will insure it
How many times have rights been
sacraficed temporarily Its like
taxes being reduced It happens BUT rarely sacrafices have to be made due to the circumstances But
some government agencies will use it for theyre benifit and youll have to bend over and have a
crappy un birthday

[skinner]

would someone please give me shit about not proofreading my posts ? punctuation , e.t.c.
I could write a novel with all the letters I leave out . Hey thats a good idea !!! Here it is

beeSlebaum wishtank fintacore splosion skape to owser plassn's
mit haben der svingle smorten ewfff !!! { lost exclamations]
.......,,,,,,{{{{}}}} untt ????

[teal marie]

Aww, Skinner, I'm sorry! I like your comments enormously. You always make me grin.
Who cares about Bill O? He's not even supposed to be here.
May I wish you another very merry unbirthday today? It's my unbirthday, too!

[skinner]

Happy happy un birthday T.M.
Wouldnt it be just SWELLY!!
to have every unbirthday be an escuse to do whatever you didnt or
did want to do ???? { randomly],
I gaurentee you I would golf something Ive avoided religiously
and Id have fun !!! Where can you get upside down peacocks ?? the next day Id join a birdwatching club but Id bring a gun with a scope and tell them my binoculars got stolen . Day three UNBIRTHDAYS ARE FUN , Today I decided to sit in with the court stenographer , boy was she edgey . I got an armed escort out of the courtroom though and they were very cordial
between you and me the judicial system is really uptight.day 4 decided to go to noth central OR> john day fossil bed Clarno Oregon The John Day river The dinosaurs are all dead here [which was a little discouraging],
but the bones are there and the have pictures These were actually huge Mammals and I scared myself by squinting my eyes at a picture of a mastadon and it appeared to be life size so I ran yelling. "BACK OFF" across the parking lot . Luckily I was parked at the other side ,next to the river we went fishing and caught 3 smallmouth bass on crawdad tails they were dilisious an coincidentally it was there un birthday also I am so happy about this unbirthday concept I am sure Ill live by it for the rest of my life...... And I assure you thanks to Teal Marie, Ill keep everyone posted, as to everything I do on my un birthdays FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE

Who said " you wont live that long" ??????

[skinner]

Oh my God I cant even spell
de- lissy us give me another beer happy unbirthday to all

[skinner]

Oh my God I cant even spell
de- lissy us give me another beer happy unbirthday to all

[skinner]

I told them upside down flamingo
and they sent me an upside down peacock that they had plucked and painted with red dye #5 plus the box was so small its neck was like a question mark {?} and I couldnt even putt with it No wonder I hate golf so much. RECIPES????/

[teal marie]

LOL! Skinner, you insomniac savant!
You couldn't even putt with it?!? Too dang funny! You managed to out-absurd Lewis Caroll. Congrats!!
(Some spare !!! in case anybody needs one.)
Today is going to be a geat unbirthday!!