Where's the 'Love?'

Will, in his blog, takes issue with my characterization of events during a dead-cell excising of the other day. Arguably, some of his comments regarding those who commented on the post have merit. However, here are some excerpts to which I felt the need to respond:

"SwampWoman" says:
"I used to have a construction company and hired a variety of folks. What I thought was odd was that the whites and hispanics did not have a problem with the Caribbean blacks, but the American blacks would make their lives a living hell until they left."

So, categorically, every white and hispanic person who worked for the construction company had no problem with Caribbean blacks, and, categorically, every American black made their lives a living hell? And more importantly, what does this have to do with college admissions?

Of course all Carribeans aren’t hard workers, nor does every black American make “their lives a living hell.” Considering that SwampWoman was referring to her particular company, the word "some" is implied. It’s called anecdotal evidence—just like, admittedly, my post. SwampWoman's story, however, is a symptom of the problem.

Here are a couple of definitions of the word "prejudice" from my trusty Webster's dictionary:
preconceived judgment or opinion
an adverse (emphasis mine) opinion or leaning without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge
an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics.

Here's a quote from Juliette: "Heck, I don’t even like every black person. In fact, I don’t like most of them." Since I doubt that anyone knows "every black person, " how can you dislike people you don't know?

As I mentioned in your comments, you quoted me out of context. Read my post again. I’m not too fond of most people that I have met—which apparently must be spelled out for some--regardless of their ethnicity or persuasion. A post-conceived notion, to be sure, if I may coin a word.

My question concerns whether African-Americans can air grievances and be taken seriously. I'm growing tired of the kneejerk dismissal of minority grievances. It's come to this: if an African American complains about anything, it's perceived as a desire by the person to maintain victim status.

Crying “wolf” at every preconceived slight will cause that to happen. Legitimate grievances will get caught in the mire of the whining. Complaining about how much paperwork is involved to apply to college and using it as evidence that "they don’t want us there” falls into that category.

What I'm completely sick and disgusted by are people who attack African Americans for no legitimate reason or who criticize them for sport.

Am I doing that?

Six days ago, while walking to my car after work, I was repeatly [sic] called a "nigger dog" by a raving lunatic. Now, the man's speech is protected by the Second Amendment [sic] and, since he didn't threaten violence, he didn't commit a hate crime. But he certainly was trying to send a message.

Should I not be upset about this? Should I not hope for a world in which people of any race, gender or sexual preference are allowed to live free of irrational hatred?

In traffic, I have been called an “ugly nigger b****” while in military uniform defending this person’s right to piss me off. Ugly? It’s a matter of taste. Glad this cretin thought so; I suppose it’s because I’m not a Halle Berry clone.

B****? You’d better believe it.

Then there’s that other word. Had the…man…been brave enough to call me out without running away, I might have shown him that I take my Second Amendment rights seriously. (I know you meant the First Amendment.)

In the aftermath, I will admit to temporarily avoiding my (mostly white) friends/co-workers/comrades-in-arms. Were they calling me that word behind my back, I emotionally asked myself. Such an incident does little to induce rational thinking. However, reason, once again, did take over.

Of course, you have the right to be upset about such a thing (as did I). Are the types that we apparently have both run into--and, regrettably, not over--stopping us from achieving?

Here’s a relevant analogy: In the early and mid parts of the last century, Jewish Americans were not exactly welcome on many college campuses. Yes, they complained about it, but it didn’t stop many of them from reaching their goals. Not all, Will, not all, but a larger portion than can be said of black Americans since, say, 1964.

Shouldn't a student be allowed to voice a grievance without being kicked out by a kneejerk dismissal of his concerns?

Do you know what "compassion" means?

compassion: sympathetic consciousness of others' distress together with a desire to alleviate it

Should we only have compassion for non-whiners?

And what in the name of (insert name of your favorite deity or philosopher) is wrong with love?

Having love for another or a group does not imply an implicit or explicit approval of everything which that person or group does. Example: a relative of mine has two illegitimate children by different fathers. Did my vocal disapproval of this state of affairs imply that I don’t love her? You make the call.

I learned long ago that you can't win an argument about race, because we're all prejudiced. No one can distance themselves far enough from their own feelings and perceptions to be rational about this issue.

I'm not arguing a point of view. This is a rant. I'm not trying to win an argument, and since I truly believe you can't argue about race, I rarely discuss race on my blog, and I probably won't respond to any comments.

Well, Will. I understand your ambivalence toward discussing this subject. However, since you did post parts of my rant on your blog, a response from me was inevitable. Cause and effect, you know.

Peace out.

Back at you.

UPDATE: Here’s Will’s response to my attempt to engage him in constructive dialogue. I asked him a question in order to answer one of his questions to me. I did this in order to avoid making any assumptions about the meaning of his question.

How much "context" would satisfy you?The entire paragraph? Your entire entry?

Not answering my question is a blatant way of showing your unwillingness to engage in argument and to defend your own words.

What we have here is yet another blogger who only responds to commenters who kowtow to her point of view. Goodbye, Juliette.

Sigh. Sometimes people won’t let you give them the benefit of the doubt regarding their intelligence. And Will wonders at my misanthropy.

UPDATE: The above comment was mistakenly attributed to "Chris in CT." The error has been corrected, has its correct author, "SwampWoman," and the correct gender references.

Comments

[Mr. Lion]

I wouldn't put a lot of faith into the cognitive ability of one who confuses the 1st amendment with the 2nd.

And we won't even get into the 15th.

Some people really need to think before they type.

[Dennis]

I have been called an “ugly nigger b****”

That redneck obviously couldn't see straight out of his 'descent without benefit of branches 'eyes, as your pictures give the lie to his comments.

B****?

Maybe, can't tell from what I've read so far. But even if you are, you're probably not a patch on my oldest sister. Now, there....

[John]

Wil's arguments are empty straw men, set up by him to elicit response. There are a number of axioms in his original statement that fix the issue by design. Question any of those, and his position falls apart.

First off, he quotes

"Here's a quote from Juliette: "Heck, I don’t even like every black person. In fact, I don’t like most of them." Since I doubt that anyone knows "every black person, " how can you dislike people you don't know?"

Wil is reading here that Juliette dislikes a majority of black people, exclusionary to all others. This is taken out of context, and its meaning is different when quoted in full.

"Heck, I don’t even like every black person. In fact, I don’t like most of them. (Don’t start feeling smug, others. I don’t like most of you either.)"

And pretty clearly implies that this is universal on humanity. It would be closer to say this is cynicism for everyone than anything.

The question he asks here is whether or not any black individual can air a complaint and still be taken seriously. The answer is yes, it happens daily, from the smallest coffee shop, to the supreme court.

The fact exists, there are numerous helps and benefits out there for every race, every religion in this country to be heard. None are excluded, let us know if you find a group that is excluded, I'm sure you'll find a dozen champions of that cause the next day.

And because humans are so diverse, there will also be people directly opposed to any such effort, such is the tug and pull of society, it is always thus, it will never cease.

One thing for certain, the vast majority of all of us are better off than we were 50 years ago. And things be better off yet as we go along.

Peace Out

[Paul Jané]

Juliette,

You've been quoted out of context, you've finally made it, congrats. ;-)

(If you want an example of imbecilic invective and circular logic in defence of the indefensible, I suggest that you take a look at "I suspect that this will come back to haunt me..." and its follow-up post in the Greatest Hits section over at my place if you have the time.)

[baldilocks]

Dennis: Thanks. :-)

John: Well said, but I doubt that I'll get anymore grief from that particular source.

Paul: Will read and comment.

[baldilocks]

Paul: While I am still reading your suggested offerings, I had to stop and tell how enamoured I am of this phrase, found in the follow-up: [...]the short way of summing up your analogy here would be to compare its finer points with the natural by-product of a bull's digestive system.

I love it.

[Paul Jané]

HEH, thanks Juliette, I'm quite proud of that line... :-)

[Chris from CT]

For the record, I did not make the remarks attributed to me. As noted elsewhere, he was confused about whether the names attached to each post were the preceding of following ones. (Hint: look at the first one.)
He did take issue with my actual comment (attributing it to someone else) and I responded in his comments. Confused yet? Good.

[baldilocks]

Chris: I'll change the attribution. Thanks for pointing it out and forgive me for my lack of attention. I'll go check out your comments.

[Cynthia]

Wow. Excellent post. I don't know really what to say, except that I was told once that as a white woman I have absolutely no idea what a person of color has to deal with each and every day.

Today, Juliette, you gave me a glimpse and I am sickened and disheartened. Your strength is an inspiration to me.

[P6]

Remember what I said about a touch of consciousness? You dropped it in this post, before I ever mentioned it (and to be honest, it's just a touch) and there's a whole different quality to the comments you've received.

BTW, you think MY links make YOU twitch? brrrrr…

[baldilocks]

Thanks, P6 (I think). :-)

[Geoffrey]

I agree with your original entry. It's hard for me as a white person to discuss race with someone I don't know, such as yourself. You don't know me, or my thoughts, so my words can be misinterpreted.

Many people like to THINK they are being singled out, or made to jump through hoops, as an excuse. If they fail in their minds, and it's someone else's fault, then they don't have to even try. Or, their failure had nothing to do with them.

It doesn't just apply to race issues, but that's the most noticeable. Maybe it's just the people I associate with, but people don't see race as a handicap now. It's just a difference.

[Jay Solo]

The funny thing is, the two Caribbean blacks I've worked with both had attitude or other problems, and weren't very good employees.

The two Kenyan blacks I've worked with were both superlative, and one of them is one of the most talented people I have ever known, who is up at the top of our list of people we know who we'd hire when we've grown enough to need to hire.

American blacks I've found as much of a mixed bag as Americans of the whole spectrum. One of my first jobs had an older black guy who was great, a young guy who was fine at the job, a little of an "I'm owed" attitude, but was the factory's source for weed. Then there was one who was in the "I'm black, I am entitled, you can't touch me" category, who got fired for sleeping on the job.

Ultimately, people are people, and anyone can have an attitude, be lazy, or be intelligent and dedicated.